They guys from Rivet Racing have been using some Tokyowheel for a while. This post is a place to give comments, feedback, criticism and requests.
Thanks guys!
One of the team members posted a great race report blog http://sifter-writes-bikes.blogspot.com/2015/01/five-lessons-from-north-island-series.html
It looks like he had a mixed experience in race 3, and I can’t help but want to know more about the corner he missed.
On Sifter’s behalf I can tell you about that James.
The course set by the North Island Series organisers was very interesting in small farm roads through the Wairarapa countryside in New Zealand. The sharp corner in question came after a short steep descent and went straight into a critical cross wind section. With a field of 100 riders turning up and the need to be in front critical it was a fight to get around the corner with speed. Sifter was one of the unlucky ones who was forced wide.
It was his first race on his Epic 60 wheelset and the wheels handled the high speed offroad trip admirably. He is a big powerful rider so it was a particularly good test.
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Thanks for setting up this thread, James.
I purchased a set of Epic 50’s in November and have lent them to several team mates to test and provide feedback.
The feedback so far is:
- They all thought the Epic 50s looked particularly good and had no reservations about testing them(!).
2.The wider profile with 25mm tyres run at lower pressure was a revelation for those who had not yet ridden wider rims. Benefits are more traction without increasing roll resistance and a noticable reduction in road vibration. This is a useful attribute on New Zealand roads which often have a course seal.
3.They roll very nicely at speed. I initially chose Tokyowheel because of the good things I heard about their aerodynamic properties. I have found them to be at their best at high speeds where they are stable and comfortable. The wider tyres run at lower pressure must also contribute to this solid feeling. - Handling is not effected by strong winds including cross winds. No doubt this is due to the wider aerodynamic section. We often have very windy races in Wellington (100kmph winds are common in spring) so this is an important issue for us. It also influenced my decision to choose Epic 50s rather than Epic 60s.
- Everyone commented on the compromised braking performance of the carbon surfaces. We all used Swissstop Yellow King pads which trade off modulation for sheer stopping power so the feel is distinctly different to alloy rim braking and a bit unnerving at first. I have yet to try Swissstop Black Prince pads which claim to have better modulation but I guess this is a tradeoff of carbon braking surfaces.
- The biggest Issue I have had with the Epic 50s is a noticable lateral flex when I get out of the saddle for hard accellerations. I put this down to the radially laced non-drive side spokes which will never be as solid as a 2-cross pattern. I have raise this with James because it is such an issue for my frame where there is not a lot of seatstay clearance when using 25mm tyres on the wider section rim so I get tyre rub. James has offered to replace the rear wheel with 2X lacing on both sides which is the thing I like the most about TW - their customer service is quite exceptional.
- The weight of the wheelset came in at just under 1700g (excluding skewers, tyres, tubes etc) for the standard build. In hindsight I should have chosen the upgrade to reduce the weight closer to 1500g as my intention is to use the wheels primarily for racing. None of my team mates found them to feel heavy but I have an alloy, wide rim, low profile, clincher wheelset that is 1500g so I do notice the difference on hills.
I will post again with an update on how the 2X spoke lacing on the non-drive side impacts on the lateral flex once I have the replacement wheel.
J
Great feedback. We will certainly engage you guys as much as possible to get this kind of super valuable feedback.
Just a note on feedback. We love negative feedback. All the good points of our wheels, we already know about (Things don’t happen by accident and everything that you like about our wheels was specifically engineered into them), but there is undoubtedly a number of negatives that we are unaware of, that get exposed through different riders in different conditions. The first step towards engineering solutions for those negatives is, of course, discovery. So in that regard, we thank you very much for your info. And look forward to working with your team.
P.S. Did you try out Ceramic Champion Brake Pads?
Hi James, I was having frame clearance issues when I wrote that last post but soon after I replaced the frame and the new one has a lot more clearance. That means I have continuously ridden the Epic 50s in training and racing for the last two months and have a better impression of their strengths and weaknesses.
First off, I changed back to the supplied brake pads as you suggested. They do not have the raw stopping power of the Swissstop pads but the modulation is far better. It didn’t take me long to get used to this and now I prefer them. I had reservations that they would not last long but I was completely wrong there. They are lasting surprisingly well so congratulations on a good pad/rim match.
I also wanted to mention that my impressions have improved over time. Without the frame rubbing issues I have been able to ignore the lateral flex and focus on where they go well and that seems to be the aerodynamics. The faster the speed the more stable the feel and this extends to cross winds. This isn’t limited to smooth roads either. Most of our racing is on country roads with rough chip seal. The Epic 50s feel stable and fast regardless.
So once you resolve the radially laced non-drive side issue I think you will have a very good product.
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Great feedback. May I ask if you are using the blue pads or the black ones?
They are the black ones
Great yes, the black ceramicChampion pads are a noted improvement over the bluestop pads. We did have some minor fit issues with them, and we are working to improve them. Let me know anytime you need anything!
I didn’t know that tokyowheel offered the option for cross directional lacing on the non drive side? Maybe that would help me with my wheel flexibility issues. The wider profile wheel is flexing & rubbing on both sides of the lower chain stays to the point that it’s starting to rub through the clear coat.
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